North Star Leaders Podcast

Lindsay Pedersen

The world needs what only your business can bring. And as a leader, it's your job to deliver. But where do you focus?

Where do you direct your time, your team, your budget, and your emotional energy? We're learning this together on the North Star Leaders Podcast. In this podcast, I talk to purpose-driven leaders about the choices that they make to create audacious economic value while also realizing their distinctive purpose.

I'm Lindsay Pedersen, brand strategist, author of Forging an Ironclad Brand, and host of the North Star Leaders Podcast. Let's get to it. Today, I'm really happy to be joined by Debbie Sterling, founder and CEO of GoldieBlox, the children's multimedia company.

Debbie, welcome to the show.

Debbie Sterling

Thanks for having me, Lindsay.

Lindsay Pedersen

It's really good to see you. What is your favorite thing about what you do?

Debbie Sterling

My favorite thing, hands down, is the look of pride on the child's face when they have accomplished something, whether it's a DIY STEM activity or they've coded something. You know, when they have that sense of like, I did it. Look, look what I made.

Look what I did. That's what it's all about for me.

Lindsay Pedersen

Well, full disclosure, I'm a customer of GoldieBlox since the very early days we bought GoldieBlox for the spinning machine with the Kickstarter campaign. At the very beginning, my daughter was quite young. And GoldieBlox was a big part of our lives then.

And what was cool, one of the many cool things as a parent with GoldieBlox is that not only the actual playing of the spinning machine game, but the conversations that it teed up. And we also have a son, it teed up conversations about gendered activities in general. Like it was very, it had a life beyond the actual playing of the game, which was really neat.

So I'm curious, talk about what you're trying to accomplish with GoldieBlox. What is the mission of GoldieBlox for our listeners who don't yet know about it?

Debbie Sterling

Well, since day one, the reason I started GoldieBlox in the first place was because I was one of the few women in my engineering classes at Stanford, and I wanted to change that. And I just noticed all of my male classmates went on to literally become the founders of some of the biggest companies, tech companies that have changed our world. And I just want more girls and women to be involved and to get excited and get encouraged in the first place.

And so with GoldieBlox, I really just set out to change the narrative in general of what girls are capable of, what's for them. And, you know, when I first started the company, I didn't even realize that in the toy industry, there were these beliefs in these play patterns that construction is a boy play pattern and dolls is a girl play pattern. And there are entire companies and aisles and stores that are divided up by these play patterns.

And there's all this research that supports it. And then it just became this self-perpetuating cycle. And so really my mission was just to disrupt that and say, hey, girls like building and making things too, you know?

And once we start, you know, encouraging that because it's true, then, you know, the change can happen because these stereotypes get so deep rooted at such a young age that I just felt like, yes, there's a very leaky pipeline all along the way. But if we don't set the record straight from a young age, you know, we're going to be missing so many bright minds who really will be able to build a better world. And we want them and we want to recruit them.

Lindsay Pedersen

What's so kind of looking back as a parent with one of the things that's so insidious about what you disrupted, like the pink aisle and the blue aisle at the toy store is that it trains parents to there's a very direct training of the child of what they're playing with. But it also there's a training of the parents of what they should expect, even if it's very subliminal. So that's another thing that I've just so valued as a parent is like making me rethink my own biases, maybe certainly preconceived notions about the way that we let our kids play and engage with different parts of their own brains.

So the toy, the spinning machine, if I'm not mistaken, was the first kind of foray into this. Talk about the arc since then. So you built the spinning machine that I enjoyed many years ago.

And then, but I know that you've expanded into really multimedia offerings. So how has that journey been?

Debbie Sterling

Yeah, I think that all along the way, since the very beginning, it was so important to me that we meet kids where they are and really speak to them at their level. And so we put a lot of thought into these toys so that they weren't just, oh, we're going to teach kids STEM, but we're going to make a really fun toy that kids want to play with. And oh, by the way, you know, they happen to learn through tinkering, you know, oh, I've just learned how simple machines work.

I've just learned about pulleys. I've just learned about levers, but in a way where they're just learning by doing and having fun. And as the company grew, it's interesting to see how kids have changed in the way that they play.

And really, over the past decade, kids' play has turned more and more digital. And so GoldieBlox has been following along because we want to be where kids are. And so we started our own YouTube channel where we would produce videos that, again, it's what are the kinds of videos that our audience is watching?

They're watching DIY videos on how to make slime and, you know, and how to... And so, and we thought, oh, well, slime is actually, there's chemistry there, right? We can also make videos of how to make slime, but sneak in a little chemistry while we're doing it.

And so we started, you know, really focusing on reaching our audience on YouTube. And now we have over 1.3 million subscribers on our YouTube channel. It's really one of the biggest destinations for girls, not just girls, but really any kids who are interested in STEM on YouTube, you know, and then we've continued to grow with some really great award-winning iOS apps where they can kind of play games and learn.

We have a game where they're learning coding fundamentals, again, just while playing. And we've also recently launched our first Roblox game, which is an escape from the chemistry lab where you have to use chemistry to escape the lab. And then we've also done some really cool partnerships.

And so one partnership I'm really proud of that we're in the middle of producing right now is with Black Girls Code. So GoldieBlox is behind all of the videos on Black Girls Code's YouTube channel that we have made together, where we have all of these incredible how to code tutorials that are really simple and easy to follow, doing all sorts of cool projects. Wow.

Lindsay Pedersen

And is the physical, tangible toy business still a big part of GoldieBlox as well, or has it been more of an evolution away from that?

Debbie Sterling

It's still a part of GoldieBlox. And it's so important to us to have that as a part of our brand and to be able to offer tangible hands-on activities that build STEM skills. And so currently we have what I like to call STEAM activity kits.

So one of our most popular ones is where kids can build a light-up unicorn pillow. And so again, like meeting kids where they are, you make this adorable pillow and you're also learning about how circuits work. It's the kind of thing again, where it's just something that kids would love to do anyway.

And they're also getting that interest in STEM and kind of learning that STEM is all around us. It's in all of the things that we love to do anyway. And starting to put that out and feeling like, oh, I get that.

I have that confidence, you know.

Lindsay Pedersen

Super relevant to them, to their lives and the concrete things around them.

Debbie Sterling

Exactly. It was relevant to the things they're interested in anyway that they may not have realized. Like, oh, you know, I love unicorns.

I love things that light up. And oh, now I know how it lights up. And I didn't think I'd be interested in that, but actually I am.

And now I know. And next time, if it comes up in school, I'm not going to be intimidated by it because, you know, I read about it in my GoldieBlox kit and like, I already knew that. Yeah.

Lindsay Pedersen

I can see how much you light up when just like you were talking about the very beginning, when you see that look of accomplishment and pride on a kiddo's face when they have this epiphany that this can be something in their repertoire as well. How do you avail yourself of those moments? Like, do you get to be part of consumer research so you can see children actually interacting with the products that you're building so that you get to see that look of pride?

Debbie Sterling

Well, you know, we definitely get to see that in reviews that people post. You know, we've received so many emails and letters over the years. And then, you know, just like it comes up all the time.

It's like a joy that I get to experience even just, you know, being at the school pickup and running into another parent who, you know, just the other day was like, oh my gosh, you have no idea how meaningful your products were for my daughter. And she has a learning disability. And there was never, and I've always looked for a STEM toy for her and nothing ever clicked.

And yours clicked for her and she adores it. And, you know, just hearing things like that is just so fulfilling.

Lindsay Pedersen

Yes. Oh, that gives me goosebumps. Talk about the choice to make GoldieBlox for profit.

Because I know there was some consideration given to, should we create a nonprofit toward this end? What went into that decision? What are the trade-offs that you make because GoldieBlox is for profit?

Debbie Sterling

It was definitely something that I thought a lot about in the early days. And I was certainly weighing both options. And I felt that going the for-profit route would give the mission potential for an even greater impact.

And I don't think I even, at the time when I made that decision and I was in my twenties, even understood the decision that I was making really. But I think being able to have and sell a consumer product and be able to ideally build a profitable and growing business and being able to reinvest that product and just scaling, if the product does good, then you have the ability to continue growing and expanding your reach. Whereas in the nonprofit world, you're focused on bringing in philanthropic dollars, which may or may not extend.

Sometimes those will dry up. And actually a lot of philanthropists look for, hey, I will write you an initial check, but then you're on your own and you have to figure out how to sustain. So in some ways I look back and I do think that going the for-profit route was a good route for GoldieBlox because of that issue.

Lindsay Pedersen

Yeah. Are there trade-offs? Are there ever moments where you're like, well, this would be way easier if we were nonprofit right now?

Debbie Sterling

There's certainly opportunities that we've been interested in that we haven't been able to pursue because we're not a nonprofit. And at one point long ago, we actually did set up a nonprofit arm of the company, but it ended up just being difficult to run that and run the company at the same time. And we didn't end up moving forward with it.

But there were a lot of great, very relevant opportunities for investment that we weren't able to get because we were not a nonprofit. So that was something that was too bad because our products and the work that we did was directly aligned with the mission of these donors that were looking to achieve exactly what we were already doing. So that was one of the setbacks to not going the nonprofit route.

Lindsay Pedersen

Well, it's interesting how because there's a real theme here around clarity of what you're trying to achieve and the mission of engaging all kids, including girls, with their STEM brains. There's that mission. And then there's also a deep desire for scale.

And almost by definition, capital from for-profit enables scale in a way that nonprofit does not. So it seems like you really are kind of at the crucible of managing a mission-based business that it's truly mission-based. And there's enough desire for big impact, scaled impact, that you have to remain focused on the for-profit enablers and products.

Debbie Sterling

Yeah. I mean, I think in some way it's, you know, an example of like for-profit, nonprofit, interesting partnership that I have now with Black Girls Code is kind of a cool route to go because they're able to bring in philanthropic dollars and to fund the ability for us to produce content and educational content and make it free. And that's something that GoldieBlox would not have been able to do under our for-profit model.

Lindsay Pedersen

That's a neat way to thread the needle as opposed to having a nonprofit yourself where you're then kind of managing two entities that might conflict sometimes to use the partnership route to accomplish that win-win. Tell me about the culture at GoldieBlox. Like what is it like to work at GoldieBlox?

What's the kind of flavor of the place?

Debbie Sterling

Well, I'd say the culture has evolved over the years. In the early days, it was admittedly probably pretty chaotic and exciting, but, you know, like typical of like an early startup, you know, where we're just like, we were just drinking from the fire hose, you know, and we couldn't hire people fast enough. And we were, you know, just so excited.

But also just trying to do a million things. And now I would say like we've kind of grown up a bit. And I would say the culture is just, it's great.

I'm trying to think of a good word to describe it. I would say super creative, very strategic, and we're no longer trying to do a million things. And it's just a little more, a little more measured, a little more, it's more like, okay, let's really prioritize what matters and get that done.

Lindsay Pedersen

Yeah, more focused, more careful. It's interesting how a company, it's like the way you just described that really does sound like human development. Like there's like this chaos when you're like a toddler and a child, and then you get a little bit more maturity and executive development and things start to become a little bit more settled.

And it's kind of a neat parallel to what you're building for kids to develop them.

Debbie Sterling

Yeah, exactly. And it's just the work that we do now is just very specific. You know, everybody that we collaborate with, it's just like very clear.

We have very clear, specific goals. And yeah, yeah, but still very playful and creative.

Lindsay Pedersen

Yeah, I believe it. I mean, it comes through in the product experience that there was joy in the making of it. Seems like that's something you can't really fake, especially to children, that that really comes through like a genuine desire to make smiles happen.

Yeah. Yeah. And what are you like as a leader?

Like how would people around you describe your leadership style? What are you like?

Debbie Sterling

I think people would probably describe me as very creative and visionary, but also very strategic and commercially minded as well. You know, I was just talking the other day about thinking back on my major at Stanford, which was product design. And my advisor in college, David Kelly, who was the founder of IDEO, he built that program.

And he was such a role model to me then and still is to this day, he's such a quirky guy. And he really fostered this culture that I strive toward at GoldieBlox, and I strive toward myself as a leader as well, is just making everybody feel welcome. No such thing as a bad idea.

Let's throw Post-it notes on the wall. Let's get creative. That's what I learned at Stanford is the way that you get to the best ideas.

You bring in different perspectives. You get a little wacky. Try to think outside the box and really encourage even through humor and literally say, okay, let's throw the worst ideas we possibly can, because then maybe that will spur a good idea.

That was the way that I learned how to design products. And when I went out into the corporate world, I was shocked that actually that's so rare. Most companies don't do that.

And most people don't do that. Most people come to a problem and it's not the freewheeling, free-spirited brainstorm. It's very serious and all the reasons why you can't do something.

And so I think that that's something that I have always strove to bring to GoldieBlox as well as the different collaborations that I have. A good idea can come from anywhere. Let's not be so serious.

Let's let loose. If we need to go on a long walk or have margaritas over lunch, just have that fun and playful environment. Let's bring kids in.

Let's watch what they're doing, having play days, getting kid advisors to come in. So I think that that's the way that I work. That's the way I like to work.

That's I've seen the best results.

Lindsay Pedersen

Yeah. And it was modeled for you. You experienced that as well as an advisee, I suppose.

But you had this model of, well, clearly he built something that works, that's really successful and he's having fun and everyone around him is having fun. Yeah. Yeah.

What are the things that you do for yourself personally to set yourself up for a good day, for a good week? Like what are the ways that you care for your person so that you can be the leader you want to be that day?

Debbie Sterling

Probably the biggest thing that I have found that helps me is exercise. So yeah, my biggest thing is I try to exercise multiple days a week. I actually just ran a half marathon on Sunday.

Lindsay Pedersen

Woohoo! Congratulations. You're looking good and as though you are not suffering too much in the aftermath.

Debbie Sterling

Yeah. I think that this sounds like really obvious, but it's not obvious that just exercise, drinking enough water, eating healthy, getting enough sleep, not drinking too much alcohol. These are basic things, but that's how I'm able to be my best self.

And there've been periods of time where, especially during the pandemic, I think many of us were like drinking a lot, you know, and then not sleeping very well, and then not getting out very much. And I just find that when I do those basic things, I'm in so much happier, in such a better mood. I mean, it's transformational, especially now that I'm older.

I think maybe when I was younger, it was like not that big of a deal. Yeah. Like 40s, these are just like musts.

Lindsay Pedersen

Yeah. You learn from failure too, like when you're not exercising, when you're not eating well, drinking enough water, keeping alcohol at a reasonable amount. You're like, oh, I wasn't my best today.

I wasn't my best as a leader, as a parent. I didn't show up the way I want to be. So it's kind of good to fail sometimes so that you see it.

Because it is very, it's such basic. It's almost like, sometimes like the more clever and fancy the advice is, the more I don't believe it. But if it's like, yeah, are you hydrated?

Have you moved your body? Are you sleeping well? Like, if you're not doing those things, it's kind of not that useful to try something intricate.

Debbie Sterling

Totally. And it's so basic. I feel like silly even saying it.

Here's my advice. Drink a lot of water. Don't drink alcohol every day.

Because then you won't sleep well. Exercise. It sounds so obvious, but it's actually really hard to do that.

Hard to follow that. So my husband and I for years now have been doing dry January. And we do that every year.

And I've noticed each year as I get older and older, I notice what an enormous impact it makes. I do dry January and then I always every year for my New Year's resolution is some sort of exercise related thing. And so, yeah, as I've gotten older now, it's like every January, it's like, oh, oh, oh, this, I feel like a million bucks every January.

And each year that January starts to extend longer and longer because I notice how much better I feel when I just do these simple things.

Lindsay Pedersen

And by using your own body as sort of a test lab, you don't have to think about other people's advice. You just look to your own results from that science experiment of not drinking alcohol during January. And it turns out that was like when I had my best ideas and when my team was the happiest and you see that for yourself.

And yeah, I love that. I love how January is now becoming Jan Feb or like maybe the rest of the year. It's a little bit, it's just like a 25% decrease in alcohol or the basicness of the advice is actually sort of the point that look, just look no further than your own experience for what works.

And it turns out that you already knew. Yes. Thank you for this whole conversation.

I have five rapid fire questions for you as we finish. Are you ready?

Debbie Sterling

I'm ready.

Lindsay Pedersen

Okay. If you didn't live in the Bay Area, where would you like to live?

Debbie Sterling

I would live in LA.

Lindsay Pedersen

What is the last fiction book that you enjoyed?

Debbie Sterling

Tomorrow, Tomorrow, Tomorrow.

Lindsay Pedersen

Loved. Loved. Plus one everybody on Tomorrow, Tomorrow, Tomorrow. That's actually a book about developing media.

Debbie Sterling

Yeah, video game. There is a theme here.

Lindsay Pedersen

Okay. What other languages do you speak or that you wish you could speak?

Debbie Sterling

Hablo un poco espanol.

Lindsay Pedersen

Okay, that works. What is your favorite brand and flavor of ice cream?

Debbie Sterling

Well, my favorite is Pistachio Gelato. Not a particular brand, but.

Lindsay Pedersen

It's the green one, right?

Debbie Sterling

Yeah, there's this one gelateria in Florence that has the best pistachio gelato in the world.

Lindsay Pedersen

Do you remember the name of the gelateria?

Debbie Sterling

I'd have to go look it up.

I don't remember off the top of my head. I don't even know if it's there anymore, but it was the best.

Lindsay Pedersen

Okay. And then lastly, what is a memorable splurge purchase that you have made for yourself or your family?

Debbie Sterling

Oh, well, I've always wanted a Missoni dress and I was in Italy recently for celebrating my 40th birthday with my two best girlfriends from college and we went shopping one day and they had a Missoni store and I tried this dress on that was like the most beautiful dress I'd ever seen. It looked like a mermaid, like, but it was so expensive. I didn't buy it.

And then I kept obsessing about it and thinking about it and I was telling my husband about it. I was telling all my friends about, oh, the dress that got away, but I didn't want to buy it. It was too big of a splurge.

And finally, my husband was like, well, let's just, can you show me online? Like, what is this dress? I need to see it.

You keep talking about it. And I looked it up online and they only had one left in my size and he was like, just buy it. And I bought it.

And I've already worn it a bunch of times and I love it. It was my little gift to myself.

Lindsay Pedersen

Love that answer. That's my favorite answer I've ever heard to this question. Yes, a Missoni dress.

Okay. This has been awesome, Debbie. Thank you so much.

Where can people find out more about GoldieBlox, about you online?

Debbie Sterling

Yeah, just visit GoldieBlox.com, G-O-L-D-I-E-B-L-O-X.com. Join the email list, follow us on YouTube, on Instagram, on Facebook. Awesome.

Lindsay Pedersen

And you are on LinkedIn, so we'll put that link in the show notes as well. Yes. Yes.

Awesome. Thanks so much, Debbie.

Thanks for listening to this episode of North Star Leaders.

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I hope you join us again for another episode of North Star Leaders.